Carolina Commercial Real Estate Connection

Transforming Duplexes to Shopping Centers: Carlos Rovira's Masterclass in Retail Real Estate Investment

• Tony Johnson

Share episode

What if you could transform a small duplex purchase into a sprawling portfolio of commercial properties? In this episode, we sit down with Carlos Rovira from Florida, who takes us through his remarkable 15-year journey in real estate investing. Starting in 2009 with a modest duplex, Carlos has become a specialist in triple net shopping centers and highlights why he prefers smaller retail spaces under 2,000 square feet. Learn about his unique approach to managing properties in-house for optimal performance and his insightful strategies for acquiring properties in Miami, Kansas City, and Orlando.

As we dive deeper, you'll hear about the complexities of finding and managing commercial real estate in diverse markets like Kansas City and Florida. Carlos shares the challenges of acquiring vacant or distressed properties and dealing with undesirable tenants. We explore a hypothetical scenario to illustrate how to analyze potential deals, focusing on occupancy rates, rental income, and property value appreciation. Discover the stark differences between commercial and residential real estate investments and the incredible potential for substantial returns through Carlos’s expert property management and tenant placement tactics.

In our final segment, Carlos opens up about his capital-raising strategies and the importance of maintaining controlling interests in his investments. Hear about his journey of self-funding and raising capital from close networks, and how starting in a tough market shaped his resilience and preparedness. We touch on current market conditions, economic fluctuations, and the unpredictable nature of property transactions. To wrap up, Carlos introduces Rovira Property Management’s services in Miami, Orlando, and Kansas City, inviting listeners to connect for more information and personalized guidance.

To learn more about Tony Johnson and Timeless visit us at:
https://timelessci.com/
https://timelesspropertiescc.com/

If you would like to discuss investing in Commercial Properties create a profile and schedule a call:
https://timelessci.investnext.com/

Reach out to us directly at:
info@timelessci.com

Speaker 1:

Welcome to another episode of Carolina Commercial Real Estate Connection. Today I have Carlos Rovira with me out of Florida. Carlos, thanks so much for joining us.

Speaker 2:

How are you? How's it going, Tony? It's great to be here.

Speaker 1:

Thanks so much, man. Yeah, it's going fabulous, beautiful day in Florida and we're in coastal North Carolina, so I think we're both in nice areas with nice weather. It already feels like summer here.

Speaker 2:

It's heating up. It's heating up. That's the way I like it.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. So Carlos has a property management company, also invests in triple net commercial assets and other commercial assets. So Carlos, how long have you been investing in real estate?

Speaker 2:

Tony, I've been investing for about, I want to say, 15 years. First property was a small duplex purchase in 2009. And I've been growing the portfolio and trading up ever since. Now we do commercial, so we buy triple net shopping centers, all value add deals where there's opportunity to improve management occupancy, do some CapEx improvements, et cetera, et cetera, and get the performance up and get the equity higher. That's pretty much our deal and I control the management. So we're in a unique position to be able to perform much better than a lot of other operators who are outsourcing their management. So we're in a unique position to be able to perform much better than a lot of other operators who are outsourcing their management.

Speaker 1:

So is everything that you're buying in Florida or where all are you?

Speaker 2:

No, actually I'm in three markets Miami Florida, kansas City and Orlando. Florida Orlando is a new addition. We just acquired a property management company over there, so that got our foot in the door and now we're actively looking for deals in that market as well. Most of our portfolio, most of my portfolio, is in Kansas City, and I've been looking at some deals down here in South Florida. Now there's actually some deals that are looking more doable after a crazy run-up in prices after COVID.

Speaker 1:

Nice.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we got our hands full.

Speaker 1:

That's great. Now, when you're looking at these shopping centers and their triple net, are you looking at anchored centers? Are they neighborhood centers? What type of centers? So are you dealing with a lot of national tenants or are you dealing with smaller mom and pops?

Speaker 2:

Smaller mom and pops. I love the mom and pops and I love small bay retail Sub 2,000 square feet. If I can go 1,000 square feet and below, even better. It's just so much easier to fill those vacancies. There's a lot more demand. Dealing with national tenants is a lot more difficult to do, the leasing which keeps me up at night. I like to know that I have the ability to fill vacancies relatively quickly if I need to, and I like economies of scale. So I like more tenants versus less per property. I don't do any single tenant stuff and everything I have is seven plus tenants per property. I don't do any single tenant stuff and everything I have is, you know, seven plus tenants per building.

Speaker 1:

Okay, all right. So when we're looking at these, what typical range of occupancy is there? When you're looking to invest in something, are you typically investing in centers that have 60% or 65% occupancy or higher?

Speaker 2:

It depends. I did one that I've done a couple of deals where we were at 60% 70% on acquisition. I've bought one property that was at 0%. We brought it up from 0% to I think we're at 90 something or maybe in the high 80% of the occupancy. That was a big project we took on. But yeah, ideally I'd like a lower occupancy because that provides opportunity to add value through leasing. And, as you know, commercial property you purchase based on its income, on its current income. So if you buy something that's currently underperforming you can get a better deal and then you have immediate upside to add by leasing up the spaces.

Speaker 1:

Sure, absolutely. And when you're putting in these new tenants, when you're doing, when we're talking a thousand to 2000 square feet and these tenants might not have great financials it might be a first time someone going into their first business I'm curious do you typically do zero tenant improvement allowance? You do a small tenant improvement allowance on something like that. It's kind of risky, right With a new mom and pop tenant.

Speaker 2:

Yes, totally, you have to. You definitely have to weigh the risk. On the TI side, I typically push towards no TI and we'll give a free rent period. We've done up to, I think, four or five months of free rent in exchange for tenants taking the space as is, and then we'll take a double month deposit and the first month upfront. So if they blow out after the third or fourth month, you have some cash that you can fall back on. We've had a couple of tenants that have done that. They just, you know, they sign a lease and then they sort of flake out during the free rent period and then you know, we just let them out of the lease, we relet the space and we keep their cash. So it's relatively low risk on that end.

Speaker 1:

And yeah, we don't do any TI unless it's a more valuable tenant that we feel we can risk it on. That's interesting. So, and I mean I'm assuming, when you're going in and they're doing no TI and these people are taking the space because when you were talking 1,000, 2,000 square foot and you're getting one, especially one where you said you were zero, you're really trying to get a tenant in there you want. You want them to survive and last so you can build up your value and start generating revenue on that property. When you're looking at markets and taking and acquiring these, are you typically underwriting your rental numbers below market? Are you assuming you're going to pull numbers up to market in these small, because the neighborhood ones aren't like a standard where you can go with a national tenant and really pump these numbers up, get really long lease terms? You're probably looking two, three, maximum five-year lease terms right on these tenants.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Lease terms right On these tenants. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. It's definitely a little bit of a higher risk on those types of tenants. You, you know, you just want to make sure you vet them correctly. They, you know the spaces that we hand over. They're not totally trashed and they don't require that much TI Usually. Just, you know, some paint and some ceiling tiles will do the trick and then the tenant can come in and kind of kind of do their thing.

Speaker 2:

We do a lot of white boxing, so it depends on the on the property itself. The one that I told you I mentioned that we went from zero to to 89 um was a total, a huge renovation that we went through, where we basically white boxed all the units. Of course, the basis, our basis, our purchase price was very low on that deal. So you want to make sure you mitigate the potential risk of having to improve the property by buying the property real cheap, since it's a value add deal. And then you know I don't do that many deals because my underwriting is so conservative that I say no more often than not.

Speaker 2:

But you really want to put yourself in a position, especially in those types of properties, where you're actually able to offer below market rent. So if you're the cheapest rent in town it's sort of hard to beat you and you can really take a lot more risk on these tenants because they are paying a lot less. So it's easier for them to survive in your center than you know center down the street and they also stay longer because when you go to rent bump them, you know, after the lease is expired they go around and they search for the nearest property. They realize they're getting a sweet deal and they're more likely to stay.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean I love this plan and philosophy. This is fantastic and you know this is one of the safer in my thought process that you know I am highly interested in multi-tenant retail, like what you're saying. Neighborhood retail is great, you know, you get your neighborhood pizza place, just your your hair salon, maybe a judo studio, stuff like that, and these tenants are sticky if you can keep that rent below rate. And something else, carlos, that I'm curious to know. I know we say triple net. A lot of these, more than likely you're buying they're not triple net because they're just owned by somebody who's owned them for a long time, maybe gross leases. Is that something that you're also putting in your plan, that you're increasing value with?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so we try our best to convert all gross leases to true triple net. It's a little bit of a growing pain because a lot of these tenants they don't really understand it. A little bit of a growing pain because a lot of these tenants they don't really understand it. So when you hit them with that first CAM charge or that first reimbursement charge, a lot of times there's some pushback. But it's just, you know, it's a matter of communicating it and just making sure that they understand what they're getting themselves into. But yeah, that's part of the process, right, and that's another way that you add value.

Speaker 2:

At the end of the day is to make sure you got your triple net leases in place and actually enforced, Because another thing is sometimes you buy a property that has triple net leases but the landlord hasn't been enforcing it, and then you come in there and start enforcing an existing lease and you get a lot of pushback. We've done that as well. Sometimes you get tenants, you get a lot of churn, right. Sometimes you get tenants that just blow out and then you got to refill the lease. So it's a matter of kind of balancing out the risk reward side of that. But yeah, it's definitely a factor company on these.

Speaker 1:

So are you advertising this? Do you have boots on the ground in all these areas that are out active real estate agents in those areas that are marketing to properties for you? Are you putting them on Facebook Marketplace? Where are you picking up tenants from?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's a great question. Leasing was definitely something that we had a big learning curve on, because it's very different from residential, which is where we started in. On the commercial side, especially the smaller mom and pop stuff, we got our LoopNet listings up, which is sort of mandatory, and we get leads from there. But yeah, like you mentioned, facebook Marketplace has been great. We have a partner in Kansas City who handles all the leasing and he's the boots on the ground and he's excellent. He's really good at following up and he's got a great process. So thanks to him, we've been able to get our properties filled up relatively quickly.

Speaker 2:

We did start off hiring one broker when we did our first property and it was just a disaster. I mean, they're just not. The commissions are so small on those small retail spaces that there's really no incentive for the brokers to go out and hunt for you. So all they do is put up a loop net listing and then sit and wait, and most of the time brokers don't even pick up their phone. So imagine the few leads they do get they're not even following up on. So we took that in-house. It was an existential moment. We realized we needed to really take ownership of that and we took it in-house and we haven't looked back since.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean that's a great plan and you're exactly right for anybody. You know that's that hasn't really researched this. So when you have these agents, they're they're getting, you know, a percentage of the total lease agreement. So if they're doing on this mom and pop, you know you're below market first of all, right, and then you're you're doing a two-year lease as opposed to a seven-year lease, and so their commission is next to nothing on a thousand square foot. You know it's like nothing. So there's no motivation for these people to go out and work for this. So then you can't attract the agents, and so what you guys are doing this is a great way of handling. You're pulling that in-house vertically integrating. It makes you more competitive and gets your product out there better. So doing the path you guys have gone is a perfect path. So what is the average, let's say, dollar amount or square footage of the centers you're looking at?

Speaker 2:

From a purchase price perspective or rent amounts.

Speaker 1:

Purchase price perspective, just so we have an idea of what's the best.

Speaker 2:

It's a little bit of a loaded question because we've bought. I mean just to give you some perspective. We bought one building for $12 a foot. That was completely vacant Holy crap.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we put another probably $12 into it in renovation. So let's say we're all in a $24 a foot, um, but then at the same time I purchased another building at $60 a foot. So it really depends on the current state of the property. In the Kansas city market you can find stuff real cheap. Um, you know, the $12 foot one was totally vacant and it was overrun by crackheads, so the work was cut out for us there. We you know.

Speaker 2:

Thankfully we got a deal in exchange for that. But yeah, it really again, it really depends and with commercial, your income or your NOI is what determines the value of the property at the end of the day. So you got a property that's vacant or overrun by crackheads, that's a negative NOI in my opinion, and that's negative income because you've got to pay these crackheads to get out of there, and so you've got to get a good deal.

Speaker 1:

You're putting a crack party together for these guys to go somewhere else.

Speaker 2:

Cash for keys. That was a good month on that building.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome, yeah. So now when you're saying, when we're talking $12 and $60 a foot, you're not finding that in Florida. We're saying Kansas City, now in Florida, that market. I would find it shocking if you're finding something $60 a foot there, unless you're in some tertiary market out in the middle of nowhere in Florida it's crazy.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, in Florida you're looking at, on a good day, probably around 200 bucks a foot on a decent mom and pop center. I'm in South Florida which is even more expensive. It's the most expensive market in Florida. But yeah, I mean I'll look'll look at a 200 foot retail center any day. Again, depends on the income. It's got a cash flow. I have a one rule and it if it's, I'm gonna pay 200 bucks a foot. The property has to cash flow on day one. Even if it's a one percent cash on cash return, I it has to cash flow. And of course then there has to be that value add component so we can increase the income.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, the differences in prices of properties are huge over here. So could you walk the listeners through something? So let's just do a hypothetical building and could we kind of, on a high level, walk through how you analyze something so people can understand? Could we kind of, on a high level, walk through how you analyze something so people can understand? So let's just go with the range of finding a 12,000 or let's say a 20,000 square foot. Sorry, we got, if we're talking, smaller base, let's say 12,000 square foot building, $60 per foot. So for a 12,000 square foot building, $60 per foot. So for a 12,000 square foot building, $60 per foot. Right, could you just kind of underwrite real quick and say that this thing, the average tenant is paying $7 a foot triple net and you're 60% occupied. So let's say $7 a foot triple net and you're 60% occupied. So let's say $7 a foot triple net and you're 60% occupied. Would you look at this deal?

Speaker 2:

All right, let's see $7 a foot, triple net times 0.6. It's about 50 grand in. Noi yeah, I don't look at that deal all day long. Um, of course, there's that 40% potential occupancy that you have to uh to capitalize on. Um, so you've got.

Speaker 2:

let's see $720,000, $33,000 of potential uh revenue there to capture just by leasing. So that's a great, that's a nice little meat that you got on that bone. It depends on the price. Right Now I'd like to cash flow out the gate. So if it's 60% occupied, it's making 50 grand a year.

Speaker 1:

And I'm saying it was $60 a foot, 12,000 square feet, so $720,000.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, $720,000. If it's making 50 grand a year and bottom line and NOI divided $725,000, that's a six cap, that's a seven cap. I figured deal that's a great deal. I mean I bought deals that are one caps because they were so distressed but the upside was tremendous. With 60% occupancy you're buying something at a seven cap. You could basically almost double its value just by leasing.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, just so everybody's keeping up with what we just went through. So we're saying buying this thing for $720,000, it was 60% occupied at a $7 triple net. So we were figuring $50,000 a year in NOI at purchase. Okay, then when we, if we can fill it up, fill those vacancies, just on quick numbers, saying we're adding 33,000 in NOI so we're then at 83 000 in noi, we take it by that same seven cap. All of a sudden our value went from our purchase price of 720 value, yeah, around 1.3 on the property, so big big upside right.

Speaker 1:

So just quick, quick number run by what the kind of stuff that Carlos is looking at and what he's doing, the amount of value he can create, and so the difference in this and residential is massive. All he's doing is going in, doing some grassroots searching for tenants, putting some good tenants in place, filling it up, stabilizing it and increasing value significantly on the property. So there's a ton of money opportunity in a deal like this. Same goes for Flex Industrial Small Bay. It's the same type premise. If you can line it up like this, uh, small retail spaces, I love it. So that's fantastic, carlos. So tell me a bit more about how, uh, the property management operates. You've got where you are. You've got a teammate, is it you? And one other person that's in your company is just two of you, is that right?

Speaker 2:

No, we've got a whole bunch of employees. So we're in three markets Kansas City, Orlando, Miami. We have two property managers that are boots on the ground in Kansas City, we got one in Orlando and one here in Miami. Then we got my wife and I sort of run the business. She's our COO, so she handles all the office and administrative stuff. And I actually just hired a business development manager here in Miami to help grow the PM business, the property management business in Miami, and bring in some more doors. So that's a fresh new hire. He just started last week. He's starting to ramp up. So, yeah, we've gotten some good growth and we have have a solid team and we're excited to keep growing.

Speaker 1:

Now, what do you use as far as an operating system for management? Do you use EOS, do you operate under EOS or do you use any hiring stuff like Culture Index or Enneagram or anything like that?

Speaker 2:

I have not jumped on the EOS bandwagon yet even though I run in circles with people who are into it For hiring. I always hire a recruiter, it's you know. I pay five grand flat fee and they do all the interviewing for me and it's the best five grand I've ever spent. I don't have to spend any time going through resumes or watching interviews or doing interviews. I just't have to spend any time going through resumes or watching interviews or doing interviews. I just watch the best you know, the top three interviews that they've sent for a week and I make my decision there.

Speaker 2:

They use the DISC profile to do personality assessments. You know which is an older sort of older personality test? There's better ones. I have not used Culture Index as much. I sort of like mooch off of my other friends that have it whenever I want to use it, but I haven't really used it at scale to do my own hiring. I rely on the disk and then my own sort of intuition and abilities to interview. But yeah, I love the Culture Index. It's a great product. It's just pretty expensive.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's expensive, we use it, but we love it. It's been a game changer for us to really. We've had turnover in the past and you know you go on intuition. Obviously, you having a recruiter, you've got a second pair of eyes on it, which is good. They're still using the disc profile, which is, you know, time-tested eyes on it, which is good. They're still using the disc profile, which is, you know, time tested profile analyzer. So that's still a good product. So that's definitely helpful. I think, as long as you're doing something to, you know, take out just personal judgment completely then you're doing. You're doing better than most. So that's pretty exciting. So what is your guys's long term aspirations? Are you looking to just stay in these three markets you're in? Are you looking to scale into larger markets, or are you wanting to stay with that same product long-term that you're involved in right now?

Speaker 2:

I'd like to get to a thousand units. We're at about 320 something or 230 units to date. That's sort of the goal and that's going to be a mix of third-party property management clients and then properties that we personally purchase within the portfolio. Obviously I'm building wealth, and long-term wealth, by purchasing the shopping centers, and then the property management business is an operating business that's going to throw off a decent amount of cash. So I like the balance between the two. And then you know the businesses complement each other. I need the management and the management needs the portfolio. So we'll just keep buying deals that make sense and grow in the PM business and see where that leads us.

Speaker 1:

Sure Now, carlos, do you and your wife? Are you guys? Is this all self-funded? Are you guys raising capital for your projects? Are you taking on passive investors?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we have some. We go to friends and family only and I typically try to own at least 51% of all the properties. That way we have a controlling interest. So we've been able to pull that off on most of the acquisitions we've done. But yeah, we do some capital raising on the friends and family side.

Speaker 1:

Even let's state that maybe on a couple you don't own 51%, are you still writing up your agreement as you are in sole control of everything as far as the property is concerned, so the other ones are just along for the ride or are you giving some of these people on a case where you don't own 51%, are you sharing control? Are you writing up your agreements where you're still 100% in control of decision making?

Speaker 2:

The agreement has us as the manager for the properties. We do have regular calls where we run things by the other investors and we get their feedback, especially when it comes to bigger ticket expenses and that sort of stuff. But for the most part they pretty much trust us to run the deals and make sure that they perform. But yeah, I mean, that's you know. Once the properties are performing, people tend to stop asking questions. They just kind of trust you.

Speaker 1:

Sure, absolutely. And the good thing too when you've been, you know, doing this since 2009, you've got the long-term track record and obviously, once you have a client, that friends and family, once they invest in you and they get a good return, the majority of them probably want to take that money and just reinvest it, right, Cause it's already passive money and so as as you build up, you don't even necessarily have to build up much more of a network. But those same people are going to then want in on the next deal, want to reinvest. When a deal, you know, uh, goes through full cycle and they've gotten a good return, they're going to be wanting to up that back. So they're coming right back to you and so, long term, this is how you grow.

Speaker 1:

Carlos obviously done great job through the years. Coming in at 2009 was a very tough time to join. I mean I, I was building back then. You know the majority of what we were doing was working for the banks. There wasn't a bunch of other work there is, just the banks were taking everything and trying to get the heck rid of it all.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I have a lot of PTSD from my early years because it was just so hard to get deals done. Things were so cheap. I mean I look back and I wish we had the same prices we had back then now, but it was so hard to get financing that man. I mean I lost so many years from my life just trying to close a small duplex loan because the credit markets were so tight back then.

Speaker 2:

But it helps, because now it turned me into a very resilient investor because now it's easier to find financing. But I approach it with the same like, uh, like relentlessness that I did back then, knowing that they were going to ask me for all this paperwork and all this other crap that I've done. Now I'm just prepared to just send everything. So it's made me a little bit, you know, stronger in that. In that regard, it's actually not as difficult now to do deals. So it was good to get the pain out of the way early in my years. But yeah, I definitely do have a lot of PTSD with regard to getting the loans closed. Sure, and every time I apply for financing I get the same. I get like a flashback, for oh, you know what are they going to come back at me for. You know what are they going to ask for.

Speaker 1:

So oh, yeah, Well, yeah, and that's the other thing. I mean there just was not a lot of movement. I mean, really, from 2009, 2016,. Even to 2017, I mean there was really not a lot happening. There's no movement in the market. It was just like a flat line. I mean it started to slowly go up. I mean it really didn't start to make a big turn up till 2017, 18, to where everything started to really look different and the deals were starting to dry up by late 2008. I mean, you could still get deals in 2018 and 19, but now it's just a whole different world. What is your outlook moving forward? Inflation is still up. What do you foresee as far as values go on properties?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm sort of done trying to predict the market. Every time I try to predict something, some craziness happens, like COVID that throws everything out of you know, out of whack. That said, I don't really see too much distress. You know the amount of distress that we were projecting when interest rates shot up. There's some distress and I'm seeing some deals that are, you know, that are not doing well and that are having people having to sell. But I'm not really seeing, like the fire sale that I was expecting Deals are, you know, that are not doing well and that are having people having to sell.

Speaker 2:

But I'm not really seeing, like the fire sale that I was expecting, deals are. You know there's not that many deals. What's happened is that transaction volume has really decreased so people that don't have to sell are not selling, and then there's not that many people that have to sell, at least not yet. So that has made it difficult to find deals.

Speaker 2:

But again, from one day to the next I mean I haven't done a single deal this year, but last year we did three and the year before that we didn't do any right. So it was like you could have nothing for a whole year and then all of a sudden the deal pops up and you got to jump on it from one day to the next. So it's kind of hard to predict. But yeah, I haven't really seen that much distress. I mean, you see all this crazy news about San Francisco and all these towns where, like, the office towers are trading for like ridiculous numbers. But here in my market I haven't really seen that much. And in the Kansas City market, you know it's the Midwest, so you don't really see that many swings in either direction. Things tend to stay relatively stable and the distressed deals that I've seen in that market haven't been distressed enough for me to really jump on.

Speaker 1:

So it's interesting.

Speaker 1:

I'm with you. So what we're seeing is the numbers haven't come down, they've still stayed elevated and you can almost at this point. You know I'm a builder and I build and do buildings for developers and we self-develop and it's to a point where you can build something for the price that everyone's selling it for. That's supposedly the great deal. So when I look at something like that and I can build new for what someone is selling, that is the bottom of the market selling. So we have Flex Industrial in my market that the bottom dollar is $155 a foot, that you can buy it for. Well, I can. If I get the price per acre at 50, 60 000, I can develop, you know, brand new buildings for 145 a foot. So what's the? What's the incentive to buy it for 155? But they trade in a second 155. It's crazy.

Speaker 2:

And if I buy that industrial uh, john you know, by the notion of 150 a foot, what do I rent it for? What can I rent it for? And will it cash flow? And it makes sense, I need to find definitely seven, eight percent interest rates right.

Speaker 1:

Well, you're exactly right. Well, I mean, you know. So, for instance, our rental rate here for this product that we're talking, you'd be at twelve dollars a foot, triple net, so it doesn't even cash. That's some cash flow really, you know. Yeah. So you know, I don't, I don't get it, but they trade all day long. I mean why?

Speaker 2:

who's buying these things? But I want to look at deals I look at industrial deals like that all the time that make no sense and somehow they trade and somehow bad deals like that keep popping up. I just don't know you're.

Speaker 1:

You're I mean you and me are in the same boat. I have no understanding on why these things are trading. You know, the difference is when we're doing new we'd be at $15 a foot triple net. So then they get close to making sense. Now they're not some home run, but those at least you know when you're new they can make sense. That's what I like.

Speaker 2:

And if you're hedging against inflation and you can somehow carry it, I guess it makes sense. You know who that's what I have. You're hedging against inflation and you can somehow carry it I guess it makes sense.

Speaker 1:

You know who knows. Yeah, that's it. Well, yeah, I mean, I really appreciate you coming on today. Uh, I mean, we've gotten a lot of great information from you. If people wanted to reach out to you, what's the best way to get in touch with you, carlos?

Speaker 2:

uh, yeah, you can shoot me an email, carlos, at rovira pmcom. Pm is in management and, yeah, go to our website, which is roverapmcom as well. You can find out about us. If you're looking for property managers in either Miami, orlando or Kansas City, let us know. We're happy to help. We'll take a look at whatever you got and hopefully we can help you out.

Speaker 1:

Awesome, and we'll have all this in the show notes and we greatly appreciate you taking the time today, Carlos, and jumping on with us. It's been a pleasure meeting you sir.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, man Likewise. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 1:

Yes, sir, have a great one.